Post by Wayne Hall on Apr 2, 2023 10:56:46 GMT -5
Humanity is Under Attack
Richard Vobes: Hello and welcome back to the channel. Today I'm talking to Sir Julian Rose, who was a pioneer of U.K. organic farming, commencing the conversion of his own farm in 1975. He sat on the board of the Soil Association in 1984 and campaigned vigorously for the widespread introduction of organic farming at a time when it was pretty much unknown. Now, Sir Julian achieved notoriety, it says here, when he brought a cow up to London at the Hyde Park Festival of Farming and he demonstrated vociferously against the government attempting to ban unpasteurized milk, in other words keeping raw milk available to people. Sir Julian, it's lovely to have you on the show. Thank you for joining me.
Sir Julian: Well, thank you very much for inviting me. I'm delighted to participate.
R.V.: You must tell us a little about the story of bringing a cow up to London, which I suppose Londoners hadn't seen cows in the city for a long time, so it must have been quite a surprise.
J.R.: Well actually this was a huge festival, in Hyde Park, where there were a lot of cows. However, what I did, I took one of our cows, Guernsey cows, and I draped the banner over it saying "Save my Milk!"
R.V.: Yes.
J.R.: And I'd already achieved a lot of publicity in my defence of real milk, because I'd already formed an organization called the "Campaign for Real Milk" and so an association of unpasteurized real milk producers and consumers, the long title. And it ran this campaign in 1989, February of 1989 when the government decided to put a ban on unpasteurized milk. We won't go into the reasons why, but they've been trying to do this on and off for years. And what happened was: I ran a milk run at that time from my farm and I discovered that one of the people on that milk run was a lead presenter of Independent Television news and he said: "I've heard about this, Sir Julian, what you're doing, and we could get the team up to your farm if you like to...." I said "Oh, yes. Come on." And it happened to be a Sunday. And so I had to set up a sort of mock milk run and I got my customers to come out with a wineglass full of real milk in front of the ITV cameras. And it hit the headlines of the news and then I got the BBC to do exactly the same thing. So successful was this, I was on breakfast television and goodness knows what else for the next few weeks that after three weeks we'd won. And it involved Mrs. Thatcher even.
R.V.: Gosh.
J.R.: Saying "I have some sympathy for your views." About saving small rural businesses, entrepreneurial businesses in the countryside. But the coup de grace in all this was that it turned out that the Queen only drank unpasteurized milk.
R.V.: Well. That's interesting.
J.R.: So the Daily/Sunday Telegraph had a huge headline "Queen's royal pint to be banned". We had a lot of fun. And we won.
R.V.: Yes. And you won. And that's the main thing. And that sort of eats into the.... Is the ethos of your farming thing the small farming?
J.R.: It certainly is.
R.V.: Yes. So you've set up the Hardwick Alliance for real ecology. Could you tell us a bit about that?
J.R.: Yes, I'm co-founder with Justin Walker of the Hardwick Alliance for Real Ecology. This has existed.... It was born in February 2020 on my farm on the Hardwick Estate in South Oxfordshire with the task of creating a United Front to expose, challenge and reverse, I think, the oppressive, corrupted and degraded political and economic systems. It's got a very wide remit. We're really tackling head-on the major problems of society that we have. As more and more people are realizing, our country's hard-fought-for freedoms are under threat.
R.V.: Absolutely.
J.R.: Like never before. As a largely globalist agenda is leading us into a technology-based totalitarian and centralized society, completely at odds with the values of human-scale ecology, which is the true green vision, working with, not against, nature. So to achieve this one is committed to trying to develop a fresh socio-economic model, one that is based on holistic, humanitarian and just practices, for the overall benefit of humanity as a whole. What we want to do is promote widespread adoption of human-scale pro-ecological and localized agriculture, localized renewable energy generation, along with supporting deliberately suppressed free energy technologies, which do exist. And we will be going on then for a radically reformed monetary system, centred around harnessing a nation's natural wealth and creativity, thereby removing the need for invasive taxation and debt by borrowing at interest from a totally private centralized banking system. Most people really don't recognize that our banking system is private. It is not government-run. It is the hands of completely private people and it is global and it has a massively powerful part in the way the world is run today. And then finally we will go for the full restoration of common law justice. Common law justice, which guards the vital socio-economic humanitarian and even spiritual values of society. It underpins universal justice, if you like. For the vibrant health and happiness of all living beings. So actually you see how universally broad as an operation it is, and our attempt is really to set the agenda for a new society, and draw people together who feel similarly that we must make root and branch reform now.
R.V.: Yes.
J.R.: It's not a question of just tinkering with the existing status quo and trying to improve here and there. It's a question of totally rebuilding from scratch. Getting back to the most fundamental issues. And essentially there is nothing more fundamental than food. Ecology has a major issue to play for all of us in kick-starting a new way of life, a new lifestyle for us all I guess.
R.V.: It's interesting you mention.....I was talking to somebody yesterday about food and the importance of food and getting people back into the land, just experiencing it and understanding where our food comes from rather than the huge industrialization of it and this more, sort of, global control that seems to be - with the use of things like the mainstream media, and industry, pushing less healthy food, but as if it is healthy, with claims of this, that and the other, and yet, you know, basic ingredients that people were farming a hundred plus years ago. did without any assistance of the globalists, if you like, telling them how to do things.
J.R.: Well what has happened I think, Richard, is that people have basically become separated from the source of nature, basically, and of course food, because it's all one thing. They've been captivated by the convenience of buying from vast soulless supermarkets and hypermarkets, whose mass-produced products have depleted nutritional values, are over-packaged and have virtually no indication of the place of origin or method of growing. So you know we've become completely alienated from what you just described. Once upon a time we went out of the door of our homes and we picked from our own gardens some of our most basic vegetables and fruits and products that we would have used for our dinners. And now that's considered a sort of modern nice-style concept. You know, it's become something that you might say is a fashion. It was based on necessity before.
R.V.: I remember as a kid being out with my parents blackberry picking. You know, from the hedgerows, and everyone did it.
J.R.: Everyone did it, yes, exactly.
R.V.: It was the thing. And now if you see somebody doing that you think, you know, you look at them - and of course I respect exactly what you're doing but other people, you see them looking at them as if they are scrounging and going "Oh, can you not go to the supermarket and get them? They'll already be washed and cleaned and in a little pack. You know. All of that.
J.R.: All of that. They've been through quality control.
R.V.: Yes.
J.R.: What you're eating might be something very dangerous and dodgy. Quite. I don't know, this is incredible. In the course of my lifetime I can hardly believe the changes. So, we've got this situation where people are totally dependent now on this sort of convenience way of life. And it doesn't give them an opportunity to challenge, or think about, the source of their food. In fact the difficulties are that the products which are available en masse are coming from sweatshop wage production in largely the Southern Hemisphere and the Third World. They've got very long food miles and we did a project many years ago with the Soil Association called "Food Miles" and even then - that was twenty, more than twenty, years ago - we discovered that the average distance travelled by food that occupies a typical trolley of supermarket food was over 8,000 kilometres. And now it's even more. You know. And now organic food that you're buying has an even higher global footprint. And it's coming from all over the world. And this is a very very sad thing, because the Soil Association was established by Lady Eve Balfour, the remarkable soil scientist, expressly to promote local fresh wholesome food which had not been sprayed by pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, had not been grown using synthetic nitrate fertilizer, presumably grown using farmyard manures and all the rotational systems that you and I experienced still when we were children. We had a total reverse. Now we have a bio - it used to be a biodiversity pyramid, that was still expanding, globally. But as of the last forty years it has been slowly - not so slowly even - shrinking. So the biodiversity of nature itself, and certainly the biodiversity of the food supply, shrunk right down. I think I am right in quoting that there are only ten products which form ninety percent of all vegetable products in supermarkets. Only ten, like cabbages, carrots, cucumbers, you know. It's absolutely amazing. There used to be a diversity of two or three hundred different varieties of food. That's what's happened, when one centralized global organization tries to take control of the food chain. And where we are now, where we are now, is that the World Economic Forum under Klaus Schwab -that's a name people might become familiar with now.....
R.V.: Yes.
J.R.: Growing something which is a look-alike of real food. And then the diet that we are supposed to live on after that is going to be based on, you know, laboratory food as opposed to real food. And a lot of people have heard recently about the fact that insects are supposed to form a very high percentage of the food that we eat. So, you know, it's the most extreme situation you could possibly imagine. And unfortunately the farmer, and this is very serious stuff, and it's all been written in Klaus Schwab's book "The Great Reset", and it's part of what's called The Green New Deal, and the Green New Deal is essentially the most un-green and the least new deal you'll probably ever come across, because it's an inversion of the truth. It's demonic, in actual fact. the It's reversing everything that's beautiful, and positive and nutritious and making it into the opposite. And then saying: "Look, the world has to be saved from global warming."
R.V.: Yes,
J.R.: And animals, and farm animals, and farming, is contributing, in a big way, to CO2 and methane, and therefore we have to get rid of farms. We have to get rid of our farm animals. We have to get rid of farmers, essentially, and replace them with robots. And make food a product which doesn't cause global warming. Zero carbon by 2050. Here's the end. That particularly. A horrific word. Along with something called transhumanism, which is the time when a human being is supposedly linked up with a super computer and you don't even have to do your own thinking, for yourself. You'll have a computer to do your thinking for you. And, you know, this is all real. I'm quoting factual information.
R.V.: Yes, But, I mean, it's been planned, it seems, for a long time, because there has been this slow dumbing down, in a way, of ordinary people, who have accepted this, so you go into a supermarket and you see a huge range of products and think you're actually having a choice. But of course the choice is not the choice, as you say, of different varieties of potato at different seasons of the year or, you know, different flavours. It's this one thing, so that in the end you're being duped. And of course as you say the biggest dupe is the global warming excuse.
J.R.: What you are seeing there is the twenty different varieties coming from one corporation, and they make it all look as though it's different. And the thing about the supermarket is that it's brilliantly psychologically thought through. And of course it comes from America. All this stuff does. Everything which is too big, and everything that's based on only visual recognition, you know - it visually looks nice - the idea came from America. And it's to do with hygiene , and it's to do with, you know, having access, convenient access. The actual issue of quality, and nutritional value of food and all the rest of it isn't even part of the picture in America. So, you know, we've inherited all that stuff in the last forty years and it's an enormous price to pay, for doing that. So now, yes, we have to ask people: please change your shopping habits. Now you've heard that local farmers are under serious pressure of being taken off the land in favour of the Green New Deal. We must support them and we must go to our local farm shops and try and support our local pro-ecological farmers, and there are quite a few. You have to seek them out and you have to make a bit of an effort. That seems to be too much to ask for quite a lot of people today unfortunately. But the real farmer will become wholly dependent on the consumer, I think, fairly soon. If you want to be an independent producer of food you're going to have to have a one-to-one relationship with the consumer. And that is going to become a very interesting relationship, because the consumer is going to relearn what real food is, and the farmer is going to have a proper rapport finally again with the person he sells to. And actually the proper price for the food, with no middleman, you know, no vast corporation controlling everything you do. So that's, I think, the task that we all have in relation to food. We've got to get out there and support our small farmers before they are wiped out.
R.V.: I read a book by Graham Harvey, who is an advisor on "The Archers", the BBC radio programme, the longest-running soap opera. But he produced a book, I think, in the late eighties or nineties, called "We want real food". And he outlined exactly what had been happening over the last seventy years, about how the monoculture had come in, how hedgerows had been removed so that bigger equipment could come in to farms, how the old system of mixed farming had become extinct effectively and how the agricultural industry had provided every opportunity with chemicals and pesticides, just as you described. So he outlined all of that, and he said "What can we do about it?" And it's exactly just as you said there Julian, about we need to change our habits. But his point was: the supermarkets are there to make money, so if people go and say "I won't buy this, but could I have more organic stuff, locally, and if people en masse were doing that, the supermarkets want to make money so perhaps because they've got big car parks and people are used to going there, if you could persuade the supermarkets to buy locally from more local farms so that they weren't necessarily using the power of buying huge stocks from one place but each area could be from all the, you know, local farms, that could help, and it might then encourage more local farms, smaller-scale farms, to be able to produce for an outlet.
J.R.: Well now, that's a view I'm familiar with - in fact I know Graham Harvey - he's a colleague. And I'm interested in reconsidering that. Actually I just missed it - largely because of my own experience. I did try and sell to my local supermarket when I was running my farm, particularly in the 1990s. They were interested, and they wanted to buy strawberries. I have a producer on my farm, who is a tenant now, who produces organic strawberries. And the man at the supermarket said "OK. Yes, bring them down. We'll do it." And I did. And then the following week when I came down with another lot he said: "I'm very sorry but I've been told we can't do this. We have to go through very strict quality control measures which we can't do at the local level. It can only be done going through centralized control in Birmingham." You know. And so on and so forth. Well, in theory, if there was enough pressure and enough consumers and enough demand for buying local, they would have to capitulate to that and they would have to redress their view that only money is the key issue, that there is something to do with serving your locality which is valuable, and if you want to survive we're going to have to think about how we can be more open to local people who want local real food. And the only problem is, as far as I can see: when you've got a very large establishment and very large buildings and huge expenses involved, and very large staff, I think what you would have to do is you would have to cut it down to about one quarter of that space, and each one, and possibly one sixteenth, and then have one very intensive small section, which is dealing entirely with the local food and paying people a fair price for it, and being very honest about the form of production, because the scale is too big. You know, there is something organic about the issue of scale. We're very keen on the expression "human-scale", in relationship to our relation with food and farming. And relationship to nature. Our relationship actually with having a warm and community-orientated approach to each other. When you feel you are in control of your own destiny you have to have some knowledge of your own about your energy systems, you know. You have to have some knowledge how to grow food. You have to have some knowledge how to access clean water. You have to have some knowledge about building. You have to have some knowledge about these issues, which are called "artisan issues", you know. And you have to see beyond a certain point that needs to remain small and medium-size scale. If you get too big it starts losing its humanitarian level, its warmth, its connectivity, and it becomes business, you see. It slips into this, unintentionally, I think, in some cases. How many businesses do you know that started in villages and small towns and were very very, you know, pleasurable to do, be they car mechanics or small shops of various sorts, and grew, one or two of them, into vast things which then disappeared somewhat....
R.V.: Your relationship changes, doesn't it? Your relationship. You become just a number instead of a valued customer. And all that thing that people in the past would say: "But I've been with your company and I've taken your product for years, you know. Surely that counts for something." And these days loyalty in these large companies means nothing. And that's, you know, to an individual, that's painful to accept, and you go: "Well hang on. I've been there when you were smaller. Now you're big and you're basically kicking me in the teeth. So I'm going to take my business somewhere else."
J.R.: Exactly. Now, you've raised a point which reminds me about dairy farming. My main unit at Hardwick was a dairy farm. It wasn't ever big. We had about forty cows, eventually. I was milking cows and I was delivering the milk. I was the only titled milkman in England, delivering the daily pint on people's doorstep.
R.V.: How wonderful is that, Sir Julian.
J.R.: I really got a kick out of it. I don't know what other people saw. But anyway, I can give you a very interesting example of just what you've said. When I had twelve cows, every one of them had names: Millie, Bugle, Valley, Snowdrop, etc. etc. etc. When I had twenty I still managed to keep individual names, largely, but I was beginning to get a big vague about one or two of them. By the time I got to thirty I was on the edge of thinking: it's going to have to change to numbers. And by the time I got to fifty I dropped names and they became numbers. You see? And I'm very aware and concerned about this. On the farm another issue is: every field has a name. All our fields have names. It's beautiful actually. It's a long tradition in England. We have hedgerows and every field has a name. But these days, when you look at very large mass-produced farming enterprises they only have numbers, on fields. So you see everything comes down in the end to this very scary - and there is a real truth to the fact that the virtual-reality world of the internet, mobile phones, sort of virtual shopping, and everything going more and more virtual is pulling people away from a basic connection with the soil and with nature and putting them in a very dangerous state because from there you can be manipulated very very easily, and politically manipulated particularly, and of course that's what the World Health Organization and the World Economic Forum are basically doing. They're saying "We are going to run things, You simply have to obey us. We're the only people who know what's needed to stop global warming." Zero carbon. Well, incidentally, zero carbon means no CO2 . Now CO2 is carbon dioxide and that's what plants take in and give off oxygen. So with no carbon dioxide we would have no oxygen to breathe. And yet the plan under the WEF is called "Net Zero by 2050". That's what it's called: "Net Zero by 2050". It doesn't mean anything: "Net Zero", anyway. So they're changing the language to confuse us as well. I got running on that rather because we were talking about scale and numbers and people who once used to be human beings are suddenly coming across as being almost automatons.
R.V.: But it's absolutely true this whole thing that you've become so unconnected with one of the most important things, which is food, and the health benefits of good quality food. We're seeing children with all sorts of problems. In fact, I was sitting outside my house and somebody went past and he said: "Oh, you're that Richard on the Internet" and I said "Oh, very nice of you to recognize me." He said: "Oh, it's all right.” He was stumbling a bit and he said: "Oh, I'm on the spectrum, you know." And I said: "Oh, I'm sorry to hear that." He said: "Well, everybody's on the spectrum these days, aren't they? Never used to be." And I thought about that and I thought: "Well, maybe that's because we're all eating all these toxins and poisons and things and it's affecting us in very different ways." Whereas kids didn't have as many different problems before they became immobile, sat in front of screens, eating convenience foods rather than unprocessed foods, So yes, I feel that the health of the nation is plummeting down because we're not in the countryside or seeing and respecting. I mean the other thing is respect for the food. That's something which really worries me. So you know people just go there: they've gone to the pub. They are staggering home. They go to a take-away and they are half-eating a burger or something. An animal died and gave us, in theory, the nutrients and the goodness of their body, and sometimes you see them just discarded there and that whole, you know, that life, has been brought up these days in such a horrible industrial way, with no respect, and dies to be, you know, a sort of a food that nobody knows about really, or has any respect for it, and that's what I find, you know, particularly uncomfortable.
J.R.: Frightening. You articulated it very well. It's frightening. It's inhuman. And as I said again: I have to come back to repeating: "this is part of a plan, unfortunately. It's not happening by chance although, let's be honest, people are very lazy. As I said at the beginning, people are far too trapped by convenience. People aren't using their brains. They're not using their hearts. They're not really connecting their hearts and their minds. You know they're losing control over their basic values of life, as you extremely accurately articulated in that example. It is startling, the waste, if you read the statistics, and it's talking about supermarkets, where most people shop, up to sixty percent of food is thrown out. Can you believe it?
R.V.: And people are still using food banks. Sixty percent, as you say, is being thrown away, and yet, you know, ridiculously there is a need for food banks. It's extraordinary.
J.R.: It is absolutely extraordinary and I think, you know, what I'm really saying now: a real need to think through, to replan and to get heart and soul behind a whole other approach to the future, because if our children and grandchildren are to grow up in a world that is human and loving and caring, with quality products available at reasonable prices, it's us that is going to make it happen. We cannot sit back and expect anyone else to take control of that. The demons are on the loose now and we're going to be in a dark period for a long time. Only we can raise the light in our own selves and join together with each other to pull off this huge change, which is a very very exciting one. You can never have an ultimately more exciting challenge. In creating a new society, almost from scratch. But building on the best of the past quite often, you rightly point out, building on what, you know, was good and right and fair, and going on from there into creating an imaginative free world in which we become truly human again and we defeat the dark forces that are trying to make us totally inhuman.
R.V.: Yes. No, I totally agree. Your screen is shrinking and going. It's because the connection is just a little bit shaky at that point so apologies for that. It's not actually me shrinking....
J.R.: Maybe you're moving my head around getting excited. I'll try to sit still.
R.V.: So what can people take away from this? We can see that there is this problem that the globalists, if you like, have taken and guided us down a course that is clearly not good for humanity. In the past we had some wonderful things. We didn't have all the wonders of technology back then, and yet for tens of thousands of years we've managed to survive and here we are and yet here we are in this state where in theory we are more civilized and sophisticated, and yet we are actually in many ways spiritually and physically in a worse state. What do people - because people always say to me you know it's all very well talking about it but what can we practically do? And this is.... for example I've got a supermarket right at the back of my house. And it's so easy, so convenient just to wander over there. But now I'm getting veg boxes from an organic veg supplier, because as soon as you do that you taste, firstly, you taste the difference. And you go "My God. That is so much nicer than what is packaged over there. And, you know, so that's one way that people can say: "Hey, actually, I'm putting my mo...... OK, it's a bit more expensive but we're mostly overeating anyway......
J.R.: Yes, we are.
R.V.: So we can value the quality and the taste and know that it's actually doing us better, and it might actually mean we don't need all those pills that we are often taking as supplements or, you know, what the doctor says: "Have some more statins to keep you going." I'm not saying "Get off your tablets anybody" without advice, but healthy food brings, you know, a healthy mind, a healthy body, a healthy outlook, positive, positivity.
J.R.: Yes. That's exactly it. You've saved me a job. I would only add to that that..... o
R.V.: Farmers' markets and things....
J.R.: One of the ways....
R.V.: Yes, sorry.
J.R.: One of the ways is to try and grow something yourself. I always say to people, with the urban viewers, create a window box, just create a window box, in your sitting room, your bedroom, your kitchen, whatever it is. Get some soil: it could be composted soil. Buy it or you can get some soil from a molehill somewhere or you can....whatever, take some seeds, mustard and cress or some lettuce or some radish. Plant them, and then remember to water those seeds, every evening. Don't have too hot a room, or they'll grow too fast. Keep your temperature down a little, and then wait for that exciting day when you see that little green sprout emerging, like this. And then keep your watering going. And then make a little plan on a piece of paper about how you could make a small garden, let's say two by two square metres. Or three by three. Or smaller. One square metre even. In part of your garden, if you have a garden, and most people have some sort of, something of a garden. And then plant one or two more plants. And then watch and learn, how to nurture them, how to fertilize them how to encourage them. And then harvest them and eat them, with great reverence. With great reverence. You yourself have become a gardener. You've become a farmer. You understand what it means to grow the food yourself. And you will find you rebuild your connection with nature and the earth and the soil and you will feel much more grounded as a person. And you will be able to look at your mobile phone, your iPod, all these different gadgets, this virtual reality EMF world. Particularly the dangers of what's coming, called 5G. But 4G is, believe me, bad enough. The EMF, electromagnetic frequencies, are damaging people, terribly. And children should never be allowed to spend long times sitting with mobile phones playing these horrific games, most of which are very aggressive. So parents have to take a controlling influence over their children, not let them do this if they want them to live without brain damage. What should they do? Come on. Let's grow some seed in a box on the window. Let's create a little garden outside. Let's watch those plants grow. Let's water them. Let's fertilize them. Let's do all that. And then I think people will find that life starts to have meaning again. Real meaning. And you start to take control of your destiny. We have to take control of our destiny today. We simply cannot rely on other people telling us, because they are cheating. The great majority are cheating us. And they're getting away with it. We're letting them get away with it. It's a scandal. So I would only add that, sir Richard. And particularly I feel for people in urban settings. This is a great way. Have the experience of what freedom is. Grow and to eat your own food. Start very small. Everything starts small.
R.V.: Well, I think that is absolutely brilliant advice. Particularly as I read this morning that allegedly rationing, food rationing, is likely to be coming down. Apparently some scientists are saying: "Well, you know, food rationing - and I'm assuming that there is "Don't worry. The WEF are going to be helping you out with synthetic food. And that's a most dangerous way to go. And I think if you can grow your own stuff, no matter how small, and get bitten by the bug and realize, absolutely, take responsibility for our lives again and pull our socks up, as it were, and feel that we have a role, you know that's just going to.....
J.R.: We have a hope, and from there, you know, it will start small, but it will grow, it will grow, because people are waking up. That's the good of it. Because of the extent of the horror. The extent of the confusion. The sense of nervousness that we are all feeling because of the horror that is going on on the planet everywhere you look. And they are being forced into believing in things which are scams in the first place. You have to find in yourself that which delights in simple and effective practical action. And it goes on and on once you start because you then want to be a carpenter again, you know. You then want to start fixing things and making people objects. Use your hands.
R.V.: Use your hands. Absolutely. Sir Julian, it's been wonderful to talk to you about all this and can people go and find more. I know you've got the Hardwick Estate.co.uk They can find out a bit of history on yourself and your pioneering work. And of course get involved with.....
J.R.: Also the HARE website. Hardwick Alliance for Real Ecology.
R.V.: I should put the link in the description, yes, absolutely.
J.R.: And people who are looking for practical advice on the subjects we've been talking about now, you will find a plethora of information these days on the Internet. You've just got to do a bit of creative trawling. You'll probably find something that suits you.
R.V.: Yes. Absolutely. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for talking to us. Sir Julian Rose there and, hopefully we will talk again in a few months or a year's time and see what progress has been made as people are beginning to turn their backs on the big globalists and actually get involved and use their hands again. Sir
Richard Vobes: Hello and welcome back to the channel. Today I'm talking to Sir Julian Rose, who was a pioneer of U.K. organic farming, commencing the conversion of his own farm in 1975. He sat on the board of the Soil Association in 1984 and campaigned vigorously for the widespread introduction of organic farming at a time when it was pretty much unknown. Now, Sir Julian achieved notoriety, it says here, when he brought a cow up to London at the Hyde Park Festival of Farming and he demonstrated vociferously against the government attempting to ban unpasteurized milk, in other words keeping raw milk available to people. Sir Julian, it's lovely to have you on the show. Thank you for joining me.
Sir Julian: Well, thank you very much for inviting me. I'm delighted to participate.
R.V.: You must tell us a little about the story of bringing a cow up to London, which I suppose Londoners hadn't seen cows in the city for a long time, so it must have been quite a surprise.
J.R.: Well actually this was a huge festival, in Hyde Park, where there were a lot of cows. However, what I did, I took one of our cows, Guernsey cows, and I draped the banner over it saying "Save my Milk!"
R.V.: Yes.
J.R.: And I'd already achieved a lot of publicity in my defence of real milk, because I'd already formed an organization called the "Campaign for Real Milk" and so an association of unpasteurized real milk producers and consumers, the long title. And it ran this campaign in 1989, February of 1989 when the government decided to put a ban on unpasteurized milk. We won't go into the reasons why, but they've been trying to do this on and off for years. And what happened was: I ran a milk run at that time from my farm and I discovered that one of the people on that milk run was a lead presenter of Independent Television news and he said: "I've heard about this, Sir Julian, what you're doing, and we could get the team up to your farm if you like to...." I said "Oh, yes. Come on." And it happened to be a Sunday. And so I had to set up a sort of mock milk run and I got my customers to come out with a wineglass full of real milk in front of the ITV cameras. And it hit the headlines of the news and then I got the BBC to do exactly the same thing. So successful was this, I was on breakfast television and goodness knows what else for the next few weeks that after three weeks we'd won. And it involved Mrs. Thatcher even.
R.V.: Gosh.
J.R.: Saying "I have some sympathy for your views." About saving small rural businesses, entrepreneurial businesses in the countryside. But the coup de grace in all this was that it turned out that the Queen only drank unpasteurized milk.
R.V.: Well. That's interesting.
J.R.: So the Daily/Sunday Telegraph had a huge headline "Queen's royal pint to be banned". We had a lot of fun. And we won.
R.V.: Yes. And you won. And that's the main thing. And that sort of eats into the.... Is the ethos of your farming thing the small farming?
J.R.: It certainly is.
R.V.: Yes. So you've set up the Hardwick Alliance for real ecology. Could you tell us a bit about that?
J.R.: Yes, I'm co-founder with Justin Walker of the Hardwick Alliance for Real Ecology. This has existed.... It was born in February 2020 on my farm on the Hardwick Estate in South Oxfordshire with the task of creating a United Front to expose, challenge and reverse, I think, the oppressive, corrupted and degraded political and economic systems. It's got a very wide remit. We're really tackling head-on the major problems of society that we have. As more and more people are realizing, our country's hard-fought-for freedoms are under threat.
R.V.: Absolutely.
J.R.: Like never before. As a largely globalist agenda is leading us into a technology-based totalitarian and centralized society, completely at odds with the values of human-scale ecology, which is the true green vision, working with, not against, nature. So to achieve this one is committed to trying to develop a fresh socio-economic model, one that is based on holistic, humanitarian and just practices, for the overall benefit of humanity as a whole. What we want to do is promote widespread adoption of human-scale pro-ecological and localized agriculture, localized renewable energy generation, along with supporting deliberately suppressed free energy technologies, which do exist. And we will be going on then for a radically reformed monetary system, centred around harnessing a nation's natural wealth and creativity, thereby removing the need for invasive taxation and debt by borrowing at interest from a totally private centralized banking system. Most people really don't recognize that our banking system is private. It is not government-run. It is the hands of completely private people and it is global and it has a massively powerful part in the way the world is run today. And then finally we will go for the full restoration of common law justice. Common law justice, which guards the vital socio-economic humanitarian and even spiritual values of society. It underpins universal justice, if you like. For the vibrant health and happiness of all living beings. So actually you see how universally broad as an operation it is, and our attempt is really to set the agenda for a new society, and draw people together who feel similarly that we must make root and branch reform now.
R.V.: Yes.
J.R.: It's not a question of just tinkering with the existing status quo and trying to improve here and there. It's a question of totally rebuilding from scratch. Getting back to the most fundamental issues. And essentially there is nothing more fundamental than food. Ecology has a major issue to play for all of us in kick-starting a new way of life, a new lifestyle for us all I guess.
R.V.: It's interesting you mention.....I was talking to somebody yesterday about food and the importance of food and getting people back into the land, just experiencing it and understanding where our food comes from rather than the huge industrialization of it and this more, sort of, global control that seems to be - with the use of things like the mainstream media, and industry, pushing less healthy food, but as if it is healthy, with claims of this, that and the other, and yet, you know, basic ingredients that people were farming a hundred plus years ago. did without any assistance of the globalists, if you like, telling them how to do things.
J.R.: Well what has happened I think, Richard, is that people have basically become separated from the source of nature, basically, and of course food, because it's all one thing. They've been captivated by the convenience of buying from vast soulless supermarkets and hypermarkets, whose mass-produced products have depleted nutritional values, are over-packaged and have virtually no indication of the place of origin or method of growing. So you know we've become completely alienated from what you just described. Once upon a time we went out of the door of our homes and we picked from our own gardens some of our most basic vegetables and fruits and products that we would have used for our dinners. And now that's considered a sort of modern nice-style concept. You know, it's become something that you might say is a fashion. It was based on necessity before.
R.V.: I remember as a kid being out with my parents blackberry picking. You know, from the hedgerows, and everyone did it.
J.R.: Everyone did it, yes, exactly.
R.V.: It was the thing. And now if you see somebody doing that you think, you know, you look at them - and of course I respect exactly what you're doing but other people, you see them looking at them as if they are scrounging and going "Oh, can you not go to the supermarket and get them? They'll already be washed and cleaned and in a little pack. You know. All of that.
J.R.: All of that. They've been through quality control.
R.V.: Yes.
J.R.: What you're eating might be something very dangerous and dodgy. Quite. I don't know, this is incredible. In the course of my lifetime I can hardly believe the changes. So, we've got this situation where people are totally dependent now on this sort of convenience way of life. And it doesn't give them an opportunity to challenge, or think about, the source of their food. In fact the difficulties are that the products which are available en masse are coming from sweatshop wage production in largely the Southern Hemisphere and the Third World. They've got very long food miles and we did a project many years ago with the Soil Association called "Food Miles" and even then - that was twenty, more than twenty, years ago - we discovered that the average distance travelled by food that occupies a typical trolley of supermarket food was over 8,000 kilometres. And now it's even more. You know. And now organic food that you're buying has an even higher global footprint. And it's coming from all over the world. And this is a very very sad thing, because the Soil Association was established by Lady Eve Balfour, the remarkable soil scientist, expressly to promote local fresh wholesome food which had not been sprayed by pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, had not been grown using synthetic nitrate fertilizer, presumably grown using farmyard manures and all the rotational systems that you and I experienced still when we were children. We had a total reverse. Now we have a bio - it used to be a biodiversity pyramid, that was still expanding, globally. But as of the last forty years it has been slowly - not so slowly even - shrinking. So the biodiversity of nature itself, and certainly the biodiversity of the food supply, shrunk right down. I think I am right in quoting that there are only ten products which form ninety percent of all vegetable products in supermarkets. Only ten, like cabbages, carrots, cucumbers, you know. It's absolutely amazing. There used to be a diversity of two or three hundred different varieties of food. That's what's happened, when one centralized global organization tries to take control of the food chain. And where we are now, where we are now, is that the World Economic Forum under Klaus Schwab -that's a name people might become familiar with now.....
R.V.: Yes.
J.R.: Growing something which is a look-alike of real food. And then the diet that we are supposed to live on after that is going to be based on, you know, laboratory food as opposed to real food. And a lot of people have heard recently about the fact that insects are supposed to form a very high percentage of the food that we eat. So, you know, it's the most extreme situation you could possibly imagine. And unfortunately the farmer, and this is very serious stuff, and it's all been written in Klaus Schwab's book "The Great Reset", and it's part of what's called The Green New Deal, and the Green New Deal is essentially the most un-green and the least new deal you'll probably ever come across, because it's an inversion of the truth. It's demonic, in actual fact. the It's reversing everything that's beautiful, and positive and nutritious and making it into the opposite. And then saying: "Look, the world has to be saved from global warming."
R.V.: Yes,
J.R.: And animals, and farm animals, and farming, is contributing, in a big way, to CO2 and methane, and therefore we have to get rid of farms. We have to get rid of our farm animals. We have to get rid of farmers, essentially, and replace them with robots. And make food a product which doesn't cause global warming. Zero carbon by 2050. Here's the end. That particularly. A horrific word. Along with something called transhumanism, which is the time when a human being is supposedly linked up with a super computer and you don't even have to do your own thinking, for yourself. You'll have a computer to do your thinking for you. And, you know, this is all real. I'm quoting factual information.
R.V.: Yes, But, I mean, it's been planned, it seems, for a long time, because there has been this slow dumbing down, in a way, of ordinary people, who have accepted this, so you go into a supermarket and you see a huge range of products and think you're actually having a choice. But of course the choice is not the choice, as you say, of different varieties of potato at different seasons of the year or, you know, different flavours. It's this one thing, so that in the end you're being duped. And of course as you say the biggest dupe is the global warming excuse.
J.R.: What you are seeing there is the twenty different varieties coming from one corporation, and they make it all look as though it's different. And the thing about the supermarket is that it's brilliantly psychologically thought through. And of course it comes from America. All this stuff does. Everything which is too big, and everything that's based on only visual recognition, you know - it visually looks nice - the idea came from America. And it's to do with hygiene , and it's to do with, you know, having access, convenient access. The actual issue of quality, and nutritional value of food and all the rest of it isn't even part of the picture in America. So, you know, we've inherited all that stuff in the last forty years and it's an enormous price to pay, for doing that. So now, yes, we have to ask people: please change your shopping habits. Now you've heard that local farmers are under serious pressure of being taken off the land in favour of the Green New Deal. We must support them and we must go to our local farm shops and try and support our local pro-ecological farmers, and there are quite a few. You have to seek them out and you have to make a bit of an effort. That seems to be too much to ask for quite a lot of people today unfortunately. But the real farmer will become wholly dependent on the consumer, I think, fairly soon. If you want to be an independent producer of food you're going to have to have a one-to-one relationship with the consumer. And that is going to become a very interesting relationship, because the consumer is going to relearn what real food is, and the farmer is going to have a proper rapport finally again with the person he sells to. And actually the proper price for the food, with no middleman, you know, no vast corporation controlling everything you do. So that's, I think, the task that we all have in relation to food. We've got to get out there and support our small farmers before they are wiped out.
R.V.: I read a book by Graham Harvey, who is an advisor on "The Archers", the BBC radio programme, the longest-running soap opera. But he produced a book, I think, in the late eighties or nineties, called "We want real food". And he outlined exactly what had been happening over the last seventy years, about how the monoculture had come in, how hedgerows had been removed so that bigger equipment could come in to farms, how the old system of mixed farming had become extinct effectively and how the agricultural industry had provided every opportunity with chemicals and pesticides, just as you described. So he outlined all of that, and he said "What can we do about it?" And it's exactly just as you said there Julian, about we need to change our habits. But his point was: the supermarkets are there to make money, so if people go and say "I won't buy this, but could I have more organic stuff, locally, and if people en masse were doing that, the supermarkets want to make money so perhaps because they've got big car parks and people are used to going there, if you could persuade the supermarkets to buy locally from more local farms so that they weren't necessarily using the power of buying huge stocks from one place but each area could be from all the, you know, local farms, that could help, and it might then encourage more local farms, smaller-scale farms, to be able to produce for an outlet.
J.R.: Well now, that's a view I'm familiar with - in fact I know Graham Harvey - he's a colleague. And I'm interested in reconsidering that. Actually I just missed it - largely because of my own experience. I did try and sell to my local supermarket when I was running my farm, particularly in the 1990s. They were interested, and they wanted to buy strawberries. I have a producer on my farm, who is a tenant now, who produces organic strawberries. And the man at the supermarket said "OK. Yes, bring them down. We'll do it." And I did. And then the following week when I came down with another lot he said: "I'm very sorry but I've been told we can't do this. We have to go through very strict quality control measures which we can't do at the local level. It can only be done going through centralized control in Birmingham." You know. And so on and so forth. Well, in theory, if there was enough pressure and enough consumers and enough demand for buying local, they would have to capitulate to that and they would have to redress their view that only money is the key issue, that there is something to do with serving your locality which is valuable, and if you want to survive we're going to have to think about how we can be more open to local people who want local real food. And the only problem is, as far as I can see: when you've got a very large establishment and very large buildings and huge expenses involved, and very large staff, I think what you would have to do is you would have to cut it down to about one quarter of that space, and each one, and possibly one sixteenth, and then have one very intensive small section, which is dealing entirely with the local food and paying people a fair price for it, and being very honest about the form of production, because the scale is too big. You know, there is something organic about the issue of scale. We're very keen on the expression "human-scale", in relationship to our relation with food and farming. And relationship to nature. Our relationship actually with having a warm and community-orientated approach to each other. When you feel you are in control of your own destiny you have to have some knowledge of your own about your energy systems, you know. You have to have some knowledge how to grow food. You have to have some knowledge how to access clean water. You have to have some knowledge about building. You have to have some knowledge about these issues, which are called "artisan issues", you know. And you have to see beyond a certain point that needs to remain small and medium-size scale. If you get too big it starts losing its humanitarian level, its warmth, its connectivity, and it becomes business, you see. It slips into this, unintentionally, I think, in some cases. How many businesses do you know that started in villages and small towns and were very very, you know, pleasurable to do, be they car mechanics or small shops of various sorts, and grew, one or two of them, into vast things which then disappeared somewhat....
R.V.: Your relationship changes, doesn't it? Your relationship. You become just a number instead of a valued customer. And all that thing that people in the past would say: "But I've been with your company and I've taken your product for years, you know. Surely that counts for something." And these days loyalty in these large companies means nothing. And that's, you know, to an individual, that's painful to accept, and you go: "Well hang on. I've been there when you were smaller. Now you're big and you're basically kicking me in the teeth. So I'm going to take my business somewhere else."
J.R.: Exactly. Now, you've raised a point which reminds me about dairy farming. My main unit at Hardwick was a dairy farm. It wasn't ever big. We had about forty cows, eventually. I was milking cows and I was delivering the milk. I was the only titled milkman in England, delivering the daily pint on people's doorstep.
R.V.: How wonderful is that, Sir Julian.
J.R.: I really got a kick out of it. I don't know what other people saw. But anyway, I can give you a very interesting example of just what you've said. When I had twelve cows, every one of them had names: Millie, Bugle, Valley, Snowdrop, etc. etc. etc. When I had twenty I still managed to keep individual names, largely, but I was beginning to get a big vague about one or two of them. By the time I got to thirty I was on the edge of thinking: it's going to have to change to numbers. And by the time I got to fifty I dropped names and they became numbers. You see? And I'm very aware and concerned about this. On the farm another issue is: every field has a name. All our fields have names. It's beautiful actually. It's a long tradition in England. We have hedgerows and every field has a name. But these days, when you look at very large mass-produced farming enterprises they only have numbers, on fields. So you see everything comes down in the end to this very scary - and there is a real truth to the fact that the virtual-reality world of the internet, mobile phones, sort of virtual shopping, and everything going more and more virtual is pulling people away from a basic connection with the soil and with nature and putting them in a very dangerous state because from there you can be manipulated very very easily, and politically manipulated particularly, and of course that's what the World Health Organization and the World Economic Forum are basically doing. They're saying "We are going to run things, You simply have to obey us. We're the only people who know what's needed to stop global warming." Zero carbon. Well, incidentally, zero carbon means no CO2 . Now CO2 is carbon dioxide and that's what plants take in and give off oxygen. So with no carbon dioxide we would have no oxygen to breathe. And yet the plan under the WEF is called "Net Zero by 2050". That's what it's called: "Net Zero by 2050". It doesn't mean anything: "Net Zero", anyway. So they're changing the language to confuse us as well. I got running on that rather because we were talking about scale and numbers and people who once used to be human beings are suddenly coming across as being almost automatons.
R.V.: But it's absolutely true this whole thing that you've become so unconnected with one of the most important things, which is food, and the health benefits of good quality food. We're seeing children with all sorts of problems. In fact, I was sitting outside my house and somebody went past and he said: "Oh, you're that Richard on the Internet" and I said "Oh, very nice of you to recognize me." He said: "Oh, it's all right.” He was stumbling a bit and he said: "Oh, I'm on the spectrum, you know." And I said: "Oh, I'm sorry to hear that." He said: "Well, everybody's on the spectrum these days, aren't they? Never used to be." And I thought about that and I thought: "Well, maybe that's because we're all eating all these toxins and poisons and things and it's affecting us in very different ways." Whereas kids didn't have as many different problems before they became immobile, sat in front of screens, eating convenience foods rather than unprocessed foods, So yes, I feel that the health of the nation is plummeting down because we're not in the countryside or seeing and respecting. I mean the other thing is respect for the food. That's something which really worries me. So you know people just go there: they've gone to the pub. They are staggering home. They go to a take-away and they are half-eating a burger or something. An animal died and gave us, in theory, the nutrients and the goodness of their body, and sometimes you see them just discarded there and that whole, you know, that life, has been brought up these days in such a horrible industrial way, with no respect, and dies to be, you know, a sort of a food that nobody knows about really, or has any respect for it, and that's what I find, you know, particularly uncomfortable.
J.R.: Frightening. You articulated it very well. It's frightening. It's inhuman. And as I said again: I have to come back to repeating: "this is part of a plan, unfortunately. It's not happening by chance although, let's be honest, people are very lazy. As I said at the beginning, people are far too trapped by convenience. People aren't using their brains. They're not using their hearts. They're not really connecting their hearts and their minds. You know they're losing control over their basic values of life, as you extremely accurately articulated in that example. It is startling, the waste, if you read the statistics, and it's talking about supermarkets, where most people shop, up to sixty percent of food is thrown out. Can you believe it?
R.V.: And people are still using food banks. Sixty percent, as you say, is being thrown away, and yet, you know, ridiculously there is a need for food banks. It's extraordinary.
J.R.: It is absolutely extraordinary and I think, you know, what I'm really saying now: a real need to think through, to replan and to get heart and soul behind a whole other approach to the future, because if our children and grandchildren are to grow up in a world that is human and loving and caring, with quality products available at reasonable prices, it's us that is going to make it happen. We cannot sit back and expect anyone else to take control of that. The demons are on the loose now and we're going to be in a dark period for a long time. Only we can raise the light in our own selves and join together with each other to pull off this huge change, which is a very very exciting one. You can never have an ultimately more exciting challenge. In creating a new society, almost from scratch. But building on the best of the past quite often, you rightly point out, building on what, you know, was good and right and fair, and going on from there into creating an imaginative free world in which we become truly human again and we defeat the dark forces that are trying to make us totally inhuman.
R.V.: Yes. No, I totally agree. Your screen is shrinking and going. It's because the connection is just a little bit shaky at that point so apologies for that. It's not actually me shrinking....
J.R.: Maybe you're moving my head around getting excited. I'll try to sit still.
R.V.: So what can people take away from this? We can see that there is this problem that the globalists, if you like, have taken and guided us down a course that is clearly not good for humanity. In the past we had some wonderful things. We didn't have all the wonders of technology back then, and yet for tens of thousands of years we've managed to survive and here we are and yet here we are in this state where in theory we are more civilized and sophisticated, and yet we are actually in many ways spiritually and physically in a worse state. What do people - because people always say to me you know it's all very well talking about it but what can we practically do? And this is.... for example I've got a supermarket right at the back of my house. And it's so easy, so convenient just to wander over there. But now I'm getting veg boxes from an organic veg supplier, because as soon as you do that you taste, firstly, you taste the difference. And you go "My God. That is so much nicer than what is packaged over there. And, you know, so that's one way that people can say: "Hey, actually, I'm putting my mo...... OK, it's a bit more expensive but we're mostly overeating anyway......
J.R.: Yes, we are.
R.V.: So we can value the quality and the taste and know that it's actually doing us better, and it might actually mean we don't need all those pills that we are often taking as supplements or, you know, what the doctor says: "Have some more statins to keep you going." I'm not saying "Get off your tablets anybody" without advice, but healthy food brings, you know, a healthy mind, a healthy body, a healthy outlook, positive, positivity.
J.R.: Yes. That's exactly it. You've saved me a job. I would only add to that that..... o
R.V.: Farmers' markets and things....
J.R.: One of the ways....
R.V.: Yes, sorry.
J.R.: One of the ways is to try and grow something yourself. I always say to people, with the urban viewers, create a window box, just create a window box, in your sitting room, your bedroom, your kitchen, whatever it is. Get some soil: it could be composted soil. Buy it or you can get some soil from a molehill somewhere or you can....whatever, take some seeds, mustard and cress or some lettuce or some radish. Plant them, and then remember to water those seeds, every evening. Don't have too hot a room, or they'll grow too fast. Keep your temperature down a little, and then wait for that exciting day when you see that little green sprout emerging, like this. And then keep your watering going. And then make a little plan on a piece of paper about how you could make a small garden, let's say two by two square metres. Or three by three. Or smaller. One square metre even. In part of your garden, if you have a garden, and most people have some sort of, something of a garden. And then plant one or two more plants. And then watch and learn, how to nurture them, how to fertilize them how to encourage them. And then harvest them and eat them, with great reverence. With great reverence. You yourself have become a gardener. You've become a farmer. You understand what it means to grow the food yourself. And you will find you rebuild your connection with nature and the earth and the soil and you will feel much more grounded as a person. And you will be able to look at your mobile phone, your iPod, all these different gadgets, this virtual reality EMF world. Particularly the dangers of what's coming, called 5G. But 4G is, believe me, bad enough. The EMF, electromagnetic frequencies, are damaging people, terribly. And children should never be allowed to spend long times sitting with mobile phones playing these horrific games, most of which are very aggressive. So parents have to take a controlling influence over their children, not let them do this if they want them to live without brain damage. What should they do? Come on. Let's grow some seed in a box on the window. Let's create a little garden outside. Let's watch those plants grow. Let's water them. Let's fertilize them. Let's do all that. And then I think people will find that life starts to have meaning again. Real meaning. And you start to take control of your destiny. We have to take control of our destiny today. We simply cannot rely on other people telling us, because they are cheating. The great majority are cheating us. And they're getting away with it. We're letting them get away with it. It's a scandal. So I would only add that, sir Richard. And particularly I feel for people in urban settings. This is a great way. Have the experience of what freedom is. Grow and to eat your own food. Start very small. Everything starts small.
R.V.: Well, I think that is absolutely brilliant advice. Particularly as I read this morning that allegedly rationing, food rationing, is likely to be coming down. Apparently some scientists are saying: "Well, you know, food rationing - and I'm assuming that there is "Don't worry. The WEF are going to be helping you out with synthetic food. And that's a most dangerous way to go. And I think if you can grow your own stuff, no matter how small, and get bitten by the bug and realize, absolutely, take responsibility for our lives again and pull our socks up, as it were, and feel that we have a role, you know that's just going to.....
J.R.: We have a hope, and from there, you know, it will start small, but it will grow, it will grow, because people are waking up. That's the good of it. Because of the extent of the horror. The extent of the confusion. The sense of nervousness that we are all feeling because of the horror that is going on on the planet everywhere you look. And they are being forced into believing in things which are scams in the first place. You have to find in yourself that which delights in simple and effective practical action. And it goes on and on once you start because you then want to be a carpenter again, you know. You then want to start fixing things and making people objects. Use your hands.
R.V.: Use your hands. Absolutely. Sir Julian, it's been wonderful to talk to you about all this and can people go and find more. I know you've got the Hardwick Estate.co.uk They can find out a bit of history on yourself and your pioneering work. And of course get involved with.....
J.R.: Also the HARE website. Hardwick Alliance for Real Ecology.
R.V.: I should put the link in the description, yes, absolutely.
J.R.: And people who are looking for practical advice on the subjects we've been talking about now, you will find a plethora of information these days on the Internet. You've just got to do a bit of creative trawling. You'll probably find something that suits you.
R.V.: Yes. Absolutely. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for talking to us. Sir Julian Rose there and, hopefully we will talk again in a few months or a year's time and see what progress has been made as people are beginning to turn their backs on the big globalists and actually get involved and use their hands again. Sir