Post by Wayne Hall on Jun 6, 2013 1:20:21 GMT -5
EUTrace is funded by The European Commission :
www.eutrace.org/
Do you know this website ?
Ciel voilé
-----------------------
My litmus question for the circulating organizations dedicated to exposing or furthering "climate change" is:
Do they mention HAARP at all?
Elana Freeland
------------------
I went to their site and applied to receive their newsletter. As a message I sent this link:
In answer to their question as to where I had heard about them, I said from Ciel Voile. In answer to the question as to why I was interested in them, I said "aAs preparation for an effort to have you made illegal and your members put in prison."
In response to their request for comment, I invited them to make a comment themselves.
Wayne
----------------------------------------
I'm impressed Wayne, good job. Thumbs up!
Let's see if you get a reply.
I'll contact them myself and see what happens.
sally
-------------------------------
I had nightmares last night after seen this page. We must research to find out who is behind. First of all we need an address or a fax. Skyguards is going to present a registered request to this organization asking to have access to their polls, to see on what bases they publish their statement that civil society will accept trials. We will demand what questions they have asked to people, how many people were asked, where, what is the profile of them, etc. If there are grounds we will sue them!
Warmest regards to all.
Josefina
-----------------------------
whois.domaintools.com/eutrace.org
www.chemeurope.com/en/research-institutes/96458/institute-for-advanced-sustainability-studies-e-v.html
Rosario
------------------------------
Thanks to Wayne and Josefina and to Ciel Voilé for the "news".. i didn't know...thanks Rosario
www.lmd.jussieu.fr/~obolmd/
So EuTRACE partner IASS,
www.iass-potsdam.de/institute/administration
Partner
Tyndall Centre
www.tyndall.ac.uk/
The Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research is an organisation based in the United Kingdom that brings together scientists, economists, engineers and social scientists to 'research, assess and communicate from a distinct trans-disciplinary perspective, the options to mitigate, and the necessities to adapt to current climate change and continuing global Warming, and to integrate these into the global, UK and local contexts of sustainable development'.
The centre, named after the 19th century UK scientist John Tyndall (b. Ireland) and founded in 2000, has eight core partners: the University of East Anglia, University of Cambridge, Cardiff University, University of Manchester, Newcastle University, University of Oxford, University of Southampton, and the University of Sussex. Fudan University joined the Tyndall Centre partnership in May 2011.
From 2000 until 2010, core funding was provided by the UK's Natural Environment Research Council, the Economic and Social Research Council, and Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council. The Tyndall Centre in the UK is now primarily funded by the host universities and by research grants. Fudan Tyndall Centre is funded with a 15 year commitment by the Chinese central government and the Shanghai City government.
Maybe new for some...
This platform was opened in 2011.
www.climate-engineering.eu/
Maria Heibel
------------------------------------
cetri-tires.org/press/2012/establishment-of-supranational-environmental-justice-foundation-sejf-announced/
www.globe-eu.eu/index.php/events-blog/item/globe-eu-lunchtime-conversations
www.europarltv.europa.eu/en/player.aspx?pid=0fce2749-32da-42e8-983c-a1cd0123b359
Environmental Crimes, Combating Impunity'
Towards an International Environmental Criminal Court
Crimes against the environment are too often not being sanctioned. There is a growing necessity for an International Environmental Criminal Court and for instruments to enforce environmental protection. This GLOBE EU Lunchtime Conversation has debated the roadmap towards the establishment of an International Court for Environmental Crimes and a European Environmental Criminal Court.
Towards an International Environmental Criminal Court
29 May 2013, 12:00-14:00
European Parliament Brussels
Maria Heibel
------------------------------------
I am glad this idea is going ahead, we had it in our manifesto but Wayne thought it was better to take it away for now and I think that time has come to put it back, as it figures in the Spanish Manifesto since the begining. The need to create this tribunal was also a question I made to Mrs. Theorin. Her answer was that the idea was great but the outcome would be very complicated.
These days I have not much time to search, but I would really like to know who has patronized this conference. Maria, if you could look into it I'll be so happy. Our initiative has a lot to do with the implementation of an International Environmental Criminal Court and we need to be in touch with whomever has staged this proposal.
Warmest regards to all.
Josefina
----------------------------------
dear friends,
Saskia and I had a Skype discussion last year with Olivier Boucher.
We contacted him because the Agence Nationale pour la Recherche (ANR) had all the stuff needed to take aerien samples and he (Olivier Boucher) was in charge for an "Atelier de Réflexion Prospective (ARP)" about « Géoingéniérie de
l’environnement ; quelles recherches et quels partenariats ? » , so we wanted to participate to this workshop as ACSEIPICA.
We wanted to test wether it was a real citizen initiative or an institution of lie and we told him truly what we are (Association Citoyenne pour le Suivi, l'Etude et l'Information sur les Programmes d'Ingterventions Climatiques et Atmosphériques) and about HAARP and the clandestine fumigations and he didn't want to hear about that, not to discuss. So, he stopped the discussion.
I've just had a glance at his video
on thE EuTRACE site
www.eutrace.org/
(TRACE in french also means trails, like planes trails ...)
Brrr...
I have sent him an invitation to the Brussels conference.
He didn't answer but her assistant did, and apologized for not be able to come.
I was on the point to send our complete report of the conference in french and I thought I'll send her...
So I've got his mail and even skype contact if you want.
Thanks, Wayne for your reaction !
Best regards to all
Claire
------------------------------------
Thanks for your responses about eutrace.
But there is an ongoing event in Bonn, important for our sky.
Who in Germany will participate and report ?
Sylvie Rulekowski
Ciel voilé
3-11 June 2013 EU side events at the Bonn Climate Change Conference
The European Union is organising four side events at the Bonn Climate Change Conference.
EU Fast Start Finance: Fast start to the Future
3 June, 13.00-14.30
BMU, Room 1.150
The European Union will report on the implementation of its fast start finance commitments and its experiences in delivering on them. The event will also engage participants in a panel discussion on climate finance for the future.
Prospects for a Global Agreement on International Aviation
7 June, 18.00-20.00
BMU, Room 1.150
Representatives of the EU and partner countries will discuss prospects for a positive outcome on aviation emissions at the ICAO Assembly in September 2013.
Refreshments will be offered.
Delivering a global phase-down of HFCs
10 June, 13.15-15.00
BMU, Room 1.150
This event will explore options for phasing down emissions of HFCs, powerful greenhouse gases being used to replace ozone-depleting substances which could rise from 1% of total global radiative forcing to over 20% by 2050. Taking action on HFCs would contribute significantly to closing the 'emissions gap' and could avoid, in a cost-effective way, more than 100 Gigatons of CO2 equivalent by 2050. Presentations will be made on options to reduce and avoid HFC emissions at national and international levels, with open discussion on the roles of the UNFCCC and the Montreal Protocol.
Lunch will be provided.
Towards a 2030 framework for EU climate and energy policies
11 June, 18.00-20.00
BMU, Room Solar
The European Commission has launched a debate and public consultation on a 2030 framework for EU climate and energy policies. The Commission will present the Green Paper it adopted in March which frames key questions to be addressed in developing the 2030 policy framework. An invited speaker from a non-EU Party will give their perspective, after which the floor will be open for questions and answers.
Food and drinks will be offered.
ec.europa.eu/clima/events/0079/index_en.htm
--------------------------------
Geoengineering is based on irrationality, apart from all its other consequences, it is being promoted as a solution to anthropogenic climate change primarily by people who believe that anthropogenic climate change is a myth. Discourse of such irrationality should not be legal as public discourse. If one can make attempts to have racist discourse outlawed (as is currently occurring in Greece and not only here) then discourse of this mind-and-community destroying kind, and the stratagems that are enlisted to promote and defend it should be examined by advocates of an International Environmental Court to determine to what extent it is possible for them to be criminalized.
Wayne
-------------------------------
. Hi everyone
I agree with you but please pay attention not to mix everything and please try to remain open-minded.
When we speak of geoengineering, we must keep in mind that several sciences and techniques are gathered under this name.
Solar Radiation Management is one of these activities among others.
Do not put every discipline in the same basket or on the same level ; some solutions may / might be positive and others are not - as for example SRM, which is not a solution at all but only a masquerade.
Please avoid globalism, radicalism and collective hysteria in your approach and when you speak of geoengineering, please specify SRM so as to avoid misunderstanding from the person in front of you.
I tell you that because our main and current nightmare or struggle on which we have concentrated our efforts is focussed on SRM + Cloud seeding + Military approach and not Geoengineering as a whole.
Thank you for your attention.
Dominique
-----------------------------------
I contacted Eutrace 2 days ago after Ciel Voilé sent the link, but not had a reply yet. I was thinking this would happen, but had to give it a try.
Has anyone else tried to contact them and had a response?
Sally
---------------------------
Hello Dominique,
I certainly don't understand your mail. We must be objective, yes, but lets keep our speech at geoengineering, and not start talking about good geoengineering and criminal geoengineering. We are not here to save any method of manipulating our planet. Not in Skyguards, anyway. Your argument makes me really worried.
Best regards.
Josefina
-------------------------------------------
Hello Sally,
I have contacted them taking a different approach, demanding to receive their newsletter to have an informed opinion and offering them to do some translation to Spanish. But after knowing that Claire had invited one of them to our conference ... I know my strategy wouldn't have worked. They know who I am even though I used my first name Maria. Now we have their address and will send them a formal petition for information on their polls. They must explain on what basis they say that civil society agrees to geoengineering trials. What has been the question, where this polls have been made, what is the profile of people asked, etc. We must start keeping good truck of this kind of organisations supported by the EU. And also of universities that are engaged in this kind of programs.
Best regards.
Josefina
---------------------------------
dear Domy,
OK to use specific words.
But I don't agree with what you say:
geoengineering is globally foolish. Ocean fertilization like solar radiation management.
Geoengineering is the civil aspect of the global climate war, based on an enourmous lie to hide the HAARP melting polar ice effect : that - GES, only civil ones - are the cause of an hypothetic global warming which is for the lasts years more and more difficult to proove. But climate desorder is effective.
Young "scientists" like Olivier Boucher, who is a very typical one, are patterned, conditionned like docile soldier against global-warming-only-because-civil-GES. It's a religion. That's not science at all. People like him are totally blind.
Geoengineering is an sorcerer's apprentice game and we have to denounce it globally.
That's because most people believe yet that nature is against us and we have to dominate her.
Nature is only against our enormous ego - or rather the contrary - and our ego struggle against the truth.
Bises
Claire
------------------------------------
I really believe it is totally essential to insist (as Skyguards does) that our movement not take sides in the mainstream climate debate. Our stance should be that it is not “the myth of anthropogenic climate change†that we reject, but the whole bipolar diversion that has been erected around climate. Claire’s “global climate war†formulation is OK as a way of presenting the situation, but she also apparently assumes that it is the adherents to “the religion of anthropogenic global warming†that bear the main responsibility for starting the global climate war. That is not the way it is. To me Claire’s stance seems rather like saying that the Soviet Union bore the main responsibility for keeping the nuclear arms race going. The USSR and their nuclear arsenal were part of the overall problem (a still existing problem) but the nuclear arms race was not their scenario. Similarly, the adherents to the “religion of global warming†are junior partners in the bipolar climate change and geoengineering scenario, which is being propelled basically by people who have until now professed both anthropogenic climate change scepticism and support for geoengineering, and specifically solar radiation management, as solution to a problem whose reality they deny.
The focus must be on them - the climate change sceptic advocates of geoengineering - as the main enemy. The focus should not be on changing the ideas on global warming of people such as Olivier Boucher. Take such people as they are, but ask them why they lie about solar radiation management being just a proposal or a question of a few experimental trials. And ask the ETC Group the same question, or rather don’t ask them: just propose that our International Environmental Court rule that such a lie be illegal. This does not mean that the ETC Group would have to go to jail, because the legislation would not have to work retrospectively. They would have the option of ceasing to lie.
It seems pretty obvious that the chances of changing the discourse around geoengineering, through legal measures, are at this stage of the game better than changing actual practices. In fact they are a prerequisite for changing practices, because the practices are being sustained by irrational discourse.
www.eutrace.org/
Do you know this website ?
Ciel voilé
-----------------------
My litmus question for the circulating organizations dedicated to exposing or furthering "climate change" is:
Do they mention HAARP at all?
Elana Freeland
------------------
I went to their site and applied to receive their newsletter. As a message I sent this link:
In answer to their question as to where I had heard about them, I said from Ciel Voile. In answer to the question as to why I was interested in them, I said "aAs preparation for an effort to have you made illegal and your members put in prison."
In response to their request for comment, I invited them to make a comment themselves.
Wayne
----------------------------------------
I'm impressed Wayne, good job. Thumbs up!
Let's see if you get a reply.
I'll contact them myself and see what happens.
sally
-------------------------------
I had nightmares last night after seen this page. We must research to find out who is behind. First of all we need an address or a fax. Skyguards is going to present a registered request to this organization asking to have access to their polls, to see on what bases they publish their statement that civil society will accept trials. We will demand what questions they have asked to people, how many people were asked, where, what is the profile of them, etc. If there are grounds we will sue them!
Warmest regards to all.
Josefina
-----------------------------
whois.domaintools.com/eutrace.org
www.chemeurope.com/en/research-institutes/96458/institute-for-advanced-sustainability-studies-e-v.html
Rosario
------------------------------
Thanks to Wayne and Josefina and to Ciel Voilé for the "news".. i didn't know...thanks Rosario
www.lmd.jussieu.fr/~obolmd/
So EuTRACE partner IASS,
www.iass-potsdam.de/institute/administration
Partner
Tyndall Centre
www.tyndall.ac.uk/
The Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research is an organisation based in the United Kingdom that brings together scientists, economists, engineers and social scientists to 'research, assess and communicate from a distinct trans-disciplinary perspective, the options to mitigate, and the necessities to adapt to current climate change and continuing global Warming, and to integrate these into the global, UK and local contexts of sustainable development'.
The centre, named after the 19th century UK scientist John Tyndall (b. Ireland) and founded in 2000, has eight core partners: the University of East Anglia, University of Cambridge, Cardiff University, University of Manchester, Newcastle University, University of Oxford, University of Southampton, and the University of Sussex. Fudan University joined the Tyndall Centre partnership in May 2011.
From 2000 until 2010, core funding was provided by the UK's Natural Environment Research Council, the Economic and Social Research Council, and Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council. The Tyndall Centre in the UK is now primarily funded by the host universities and by research grants. Fudan Tyndall Centre is funded with a 15 year commitment by the Chinese central government and the Shanghai City government.
Maybe new for some...
This platform was opened in 2011.
www.climate-engineering.eu/
Maria Heibel
------------------------------------
cetri-tires.org/press/2012/establishment-of-supranational-environmental-justice-foundation-sejf-announced/
www.globe-eu.eu/index.php/events-blog/item/globe-eu-lunchtime-conversations
www.europarltv.europa.eu/en/player.aspx?pid=0fce2749-32da-42e8-983c-a1cd0123b359
Environmental Crimes, Combating Impunity'
Towards an International Environmental Criminal Court
Crimes against the environment are too often not being sanctioned. There is a growing necessity for an International Environmental Criminal Court and for instruments to enforce environmental protection. This GLOBE EU Lunchtime Conversation has debated the roadmap towards the establishment of an International Court for Environmental Crimes and a European Environmental Criminal Court.
Towards an International Environmental Criminal Court
29 May 2013, 12:00-14:00
European Parliament Brussels
Maria Heibel
------------------------------------
I am glad this idea is going ahead, we had it in our manifesto but Wayne thought it was better to take it away for now and I think that time has come to put it back, as it figures in the Spanish Manifesto since the begining. The need to create this tribunal was also a question I made to Mrs. Theorin. Her answer was that the idea was great but the outcome would be very complicated.
These days I have not much time to search, but I would really like to know who has patronized this conference. Maria, if you could look into it I'll be so happy. Our initiative has a lot to do with the implementation of an International Environmental Criminal Court and we need to be in touch with whomever has staged this proposal.
Warmest regards to all.
Josefina
----------------------------------
dear friends,
Saskia and I had a Skype discussion last year with Olivier Boucher.
We contacted him because the Agence Nationale pour la Recherche (ANR) had all the stuff needed to take aerien samples and he (Olivier Boucher) was in charge for an "Atelier de Réflexion Prospective (ARP)" about « Géoingéniérie de
l’environnement ; quelles recherches et quels partenariats ? » , so we wanted to participate to this workshop as ACSEIPICA.
We wanted to test wether it was a real citizen initiative or an institution of lie and we told him truly what we are (Association Citoyenne pour le Suivi, l'Etude et l'Information sur les Programmes d'Ingterventions Climatiques et Atmosphériques) and about HAARP and the clandestine fumigations and he didn't want to hear about that, not to discuss. So, he stopped the discussion.
I've just had a glance at his video
on thE EuTRACE site
www.eutrace.org/
(TRACE in french also means trails, like planes trails ...)
Brrr...
I have sent him an invitation to the Brussels conference.
He didn't answer but her assistant did, and apologized for not be able to come.
I was on the point to send our complete report of the conference in french and I thought I'll send her...
So I've got his mail and even skype contact if you want.
Thanks, Wayne for your reaction !
Best regards to all
Claire
------------------------------------
Thanks for your responses about eutrace.
But there is an ongoing event in Bonn, important for our sky.
Who in Germany will participate and report ?
Sylvie Rulekowski
Ciel voilé
3-11 June 2013 EU side events at the Bonn Climate Change Conference
The European Union is organising four side events at the Bonn Climate Change Conference.
EU Fast Start Finance: Fast start to the Future
3 June, 13.00-14.30
BMU, Room 1.150
The European Union will report on the implementation of its fast start finance commitments and its experiences in delivering on them. The event will also engage participants in a panel discussion on climate finance for the future.
Prospects for a Global Agreement on International Aviation
7 June, 18.00-20.00
BMU, Room 1.150
Representatives of the EU and partner countries will discuss prospects for a positive outcome on aviation emissions at the ICAO Assembly in September 2013.
Refreshments will be offered.
Delivering a global phase-down of HFCs
10 June, 13.15-15.00
BMU, Room 1.150
This event will explore options for phasing down emissions of HFCs, powerful greenhouse gases being used to replace ozone-depleting substances which could rise from 1% of total global radiative forcing to over 20% by 2050. Taking action on HFCs would contribute significantly to closing the 'emissions gap' and could avoid, in a cost-effective way, more than 100 Gigatons of CO2 equivalent by 2050. Presentations will be made on options to reduce and avoid HFC emissions at national and international levels, with open discussion on the roles of the UNFCCC and the Montreal Protocol.
Lunch will be provided.
Towards a 2030 framework for EU climate and energy policies
11 June, 18.00-20.00
BMU, Room Solar
The European Commission has launched a debate and public consultation on a 2030 framework for EU climate and energy policies. The Commission will present the Green Paper it adopted in March which frames key questions to be addressed in developing the 2030 policy framework. An invited speaker from a non-EU Party will give their perspective, after which the floor will be open for questions and answers.
Food and drinks will be offered.
ec.europa.eu/clima/events/0079/index_en.htm
--------------------------------
Geoengineering is based on irrationality, apart from all its other consequences, it is being promoted as a solution to anthropogenic climate change primarily by people who believe that anthropogenic climate change is a myth. Discourse of such irrationality should not be legal as public discourse. If one can make attempts to have racist discourse outlawed (as is currently occurring in Greece and not only here) then discourse of this mind-and-community destroying kind, and the stratagems that are enlisted to promote and defend it should be examined by advocates of an International Environmental Court to determine to what extent it is possible for them to be criminalized.
Wayne
-------------------------------
. Hi everyone
I agree with you but please pay attention not to mix everything and please try to remain open-minded.
When we speak of geoengineering, we must keep in mind that several sciences and techniques are gathered under this name.
Solar Radiation Management is one of these activities among others.
Do not put every discipline in the same basket or on the same level ; some solutions may / might be positive and others are not - as for example SRM, which is not a solution at all but only a masquerade.
Please avoid globalism, radicalism and collective hysteria in your approach and when you speak of geoengineering, please specify SRM so as to avoid misunderstanding from the person in front of you.
I tell you that because our main and current nightmare or struggle on which we have concentrated our efforts is focussed on SRM + Cloud seeding + Military approach and not Geoengineering as a whole.
Thank you for your attention.
Dominique
-----------------------------------
I contacted Eutrace 2 days ago after Ciel Voilé sent the link, but not had a reply yet. I was thinking this would happen, but had to give it a try.
Has anyone else tried to contact them and had a response?
Sally
---------------------------
Hello Dominique,
I certainly don't understand your mail. We must be objective, yes, but lets keep our speech at geoengineering, and not start talking about good geoengineering and criminal geoengineering. We are not here to save any method of manipulating our planet. Not in Skyguards, anyway. Your argument makes me really worried.
Best regards.
Josefina
-------------------------------------------
Hello Sally,
I have contacted them taking a different approach, demanding to receive their newsletter to have an informed opinion and offering them to do some translation to Spanish. But after knowing that Claire had invited one of them to our conference ... I know my strategy wouldn't have worked. They know who I am even though I used my first name Maria. Now we have their address and will send them a formal petition for information on their polls. They must explain on what basis they say that civil society agrees to geoengineering trials. What has been the question, where this polls have been made, what is the profile of people asked, etc. We must start keeping good truck of this kind of organisations supported by the EU. And also of universities that are engaged in this kind of programs.
Best regards.
Josefina
---------------------------------
dear Domy,
OK to use specific words.
But I don't agree with what you say:
geoengineering is globally foolish. Ocean fertilization like solar radiation management.
Geoengineering is the civil aspect of the global climate war, based on an enourmous lie to hide the HAARP melting polar ice effect : that - GES, only civil ones - are the cause of an hypothetic global warming which is for the lasts years more and more difficult to proove. But climate desorder is effective.
Young "scientists" like Olivier Boucher, who is a very typical one, are patterned, conditionned like docile soldier against global-warming-only-because-civil-GES. It's a religion. That's not science at all. People like him are totally blind.
Geoengineering is an sorcerer's apprentice game and we have to denounce it globally.
That's because most people believe yet that nature is against us and we have to dominate her.
Nature is only against our enormous ego - or rather the contrary - and our ego struggle against the truth.
Bises
Claire
------------------------------------
I really believe it is totally essential to insist (as Skyguards does) that our movement not take sides in the mainstream climate debate. Our stance should be that it is not “the myth of anthropogenic climate change†that we reject, but the whole bipolar diversion that has been erected around climate. Claire’s “global climate war†formulation is OK as a way of presenting the situation, but she also apparently assumes that it is the adherents to “the religion of anthropogenic global warming†that bear the main responsibility for starting the global climate war. That is not the way it is. To me Claire’s stance seems rather like saying that the Soviet Union bore the main responsibility for keeping the nuclear arms race going. The USSR and their nuclear arsenal were part of the overall problem (a still existing problem) but the nuclear arms race was not their scenario. Similarly, the adherents to the “religion of global warming†are junior partners in the bipolar climate change and geoengineering scenario, which is being propelled basically by people who have until now professed both anthropogenic climate change scepticism and support for geoengineering, and specifically solar radiation management, as solution to a problem whose reality they deny.
The focus must be on them - the climate change sceptic advocates of geoengineering - as the main enemy. The focus should not be on changing the ideas on global warming of people such as Olivier Boucher. Take such people as they are, but ask them why they lie about solar radiation management being just a proposal or a question of a few experimental trials. And ask the ETC Group the same question, or rather don’t ask them: just propose that our International Environmental Court rule that such a lie be illegal. This does not mean that the ETC Group would have to go to jail, because the legislation would not have to work retrospectively. They would have the option of ceasing to lie.
It seems pretty obvious that the chances of changing the discourse around geoengineering, through legal measures, are at this stage of the game better than changing actual practices. In fact they are a prerequisite for changing practices, because the practices are being sustained by irrational discourse.
